First forget about playing the overblow and just concentrate on playing the blow reed. Slowly bend down the note and try to reach the point where the blow reed chokes.
Chances are that you when you do reach this point the draw reed will immediately start to sound.
If it doesn't then don't panic, stay concentrated on keeping the blow reed choked and gently try to get the vocal tract in the right position for resonating the note the draw reed should produce.
If this turns out to be very difficult then try to set the gaps on both reeds a little lower (or very low) that should make them respond better.
|Blow to choke to overblow|
Just wanted to make that clear, does your answer stay the same now you know this?
I can't even bend it down. But I was wondering: maybe it's because of the harp.
So here's my question. If it's a problem because of my harp, where would I be stuck? Bending it down, choking it, or getting the 1ob to sound clearly. My guess is that if it's the harp it you should be able to go until you make the reed squeek, no?
Kein dank, ich bin froh das ich helfen kan.
(i only gap close and imboss the blow reed).
Vielen dank nach vorn
But after ur text i tried it well & i found u are right it was my technic
the bent up overblow to my way is easier to z muscles of the tougue and it was tired of many tries for a reed test
is it my technic?
or an adjustment that should be made for the draw reed?
thanks forward tinus.
i arced and gapped the 7 draw reed (marine band key of G#)so close that it is not drawing
and still the facing blow reed is not overdrawing unless it is isolated.
Do i have to file the top of the slot?
or file the top edges of the reed?
or simply imboss?
or gap closer the blow reed?
you told me oneday most harps overblow out of the box
I tried to overblow an out of the box LEE OSKAR key of A
it succeeded on hole 6 with sqweaking
but it did it anyway, and i held it long as i wanted.
thanks for ur infos tinus
you are right
Few days ago i tried the overdraws on isolated blow reeds
and it worked, i found out that it is approx. the same technic as overblowing
with the same tongue shape, the only diffrence is inhaling instead of exhaling.
I also found out that overblowing is nothing but blowing the draw reeds
and overdrawing is nothing but drawing the blow reeds (the only thing is beeing able to do it)
But i found out that it is harder to both over(blow/draw) a longer reed,
am i right tinus? It feels like every reed have its own embouchure when overbending.
or overdraws need necessary modifications ?
i should know first cz i never overdrawed in my life.
and what is the easiest hole for overdrawing as a start ?
thanks a lot forward tinus.
key of F and it worked on hole 4, 5, 6.
but i tried overblowing on hole 1 on suzuki fire breath and marine band delux
out of the box and it never succeded it feels like loosing the air quicly from the chambre.
Do i have to cotumize them?
or it is me who is getting a wrong embuchure? cz i tried soooooo
BTW if the sound you hear is a high pitch shriek then you are experiencing torsional vibratios and you should reed the page on waxing the rivet end.
Is CURVING (as i know and do; the middle of the reed will be lower that the edge touching the rivet and its end) THE REED and the other one facing it with a low gap, enough for a hole to overblow? lets say hole 4.
Of course i know that i have to play every modification i make to the reed to test it but i am asking in generaly.
the only misterious instrument in all the world.
i read a lot in this site but many things i did not understand:
when the reed chokes , does it touch any edge of the slot?
You are resonating the wrong pitch when you choke the reed. Please try the following: don't play the overblow, just play the blownote and gently bend it down. Do this very slowly and as relaxed as possible. try to get down as far as you can without choking the reed completely and try to play with good volume. With every attempt try and get the note to go lower than the time before. I am hoping that if you do this you will discover different methods of choking the blowreed and hopefully one that is compatible with playing the overblow at the right pitch.
now if i think about it - if i can get a perfect overblow on an isolated drawreed, the only conclusion could be that too much air still escapes through the blow reed as choke it, thus being the problem for the high pitch. so i considered trying out the arcing and embossing as you describe it. i even took a shot at it, but i stopped after few attempts because when i looked at it, the reed would already be so close to the plate without modification, that i couldn't possibly get it any closer. do you think that leakage is my problem? thanks buddy
I know you've read it many times, but I feel I should say it anyway. This site helps me understand how to play overblows. And the ability of playing overblows makes me happy. So this site is pure source of happines for some people. :D Thank you.
So the question is: does this happens only to me? If not, maybe you know how to eliminate this problem? Or maybe it's normal and I should just keep working on playing 1 OB - 1 B?
P.S. I'm sorry for my terrible English. If you did not understand something, just ask. :)
To answer your question, first, are you using puckering or tongue blocking for overblows? For puckering, Howard Levy's video is really good, you can get it in one day. Bascially, you have to move you tongue up towards the roof of your mouth. For tongue block method, its a little more tricky, but its essentially the same, you have to move the back of your tongue towards the roof of your mouth.(same as you are doing blow bends with TB) you have to find the position with trial and error. As for sustaining the OB, it just getting use to doing OB
Have you tried getting the draw reed to sound with an isolated draw reed? If not, then open up the harp put some tape (or a finger) over the blow reed so that you are only playing the draw reed. When playing the overblown note on the draw reed it helps if you hum or whistle the note you want first. Maybe play it on a piano to get the note in your head.
i dont know what im doing wrong
I didn't really realize where to apply the wax, but after a revisit to the "Waxing the Rivet End" link the picture made it all clear. Can't understand why I didn't see the wax on it the last time. Seems to be fairly easy to apply anyhow.
By the way it is usually the choked blowreed that squeeks, so try to get the drawreed to sound properly, maybe open up a harp and block the blowreed manually.
"However, this new reed design makes it easier to play the instrument chromatically, right out of the box!"
I bought it because I didn't want to modify my Lee Oskar, and I don't really want to modify my harmonicas at all. So, I try to overblow hole 4, I get the blow reed choked, and then, sometimes I get the draw reed to squeak. Does this mean that I have to wax the rivet end on the Fire Breath as well? Or is it my technique that needs honing?
Just for the record; I like Dennis's playing - just using him as an example because he's one of the people who claims he TB's his OB's.
IOW that (one OB6) simply doesn't count. I'd like to hear something fluent in a fast boogie, a bebop tune, klezmer or something like that. An uptempo tune with lots of OB's. So far I haven't heard anyone do that.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but am totally unconvinced so far.
I'm also not advocating against trying it out, it's just because my name was mentioned in the discussion that I felt I'd bud (sp?) in.
there's only the occassional OB on it
which doesn't count :-)
Most of them agreed that playing with TB will never be as fluent and fast as with pucker.
So, Tinus, can you name examples of tunes where OB's are played well with TB?
I don't know of any at all.
Dennis Gruenling is one of the players who claim there's no problem, but I haven't heard him do it; the one cd I have of him doesn't show it anyway.
The only problem I see is that for very low overblows it might be difficult to create enough room in your mouth cavity, other than that there is no problem. Ludo thinks that it will be problematic to play like this, but I think that it can be done.
It describes how to remedy the squeeks. If you get a B on the C in hole 4 then you are bending down the C and not overblowing. You don't have control of the blowreed so work on that before you try to overblow.
It seems to be overbending??
Nice 9 site!
I am trying to get those overblows but I did not figured how to do it yet.
I can play the reed till it chokes but I am not getting the higher notes to sound.
I am very confortble doing blowbends and draw bends.
Can you say what am I doing wrong?
I guess this has something to do with the Helmholz resonator principle that is supposed to govern the way the reeds respond, but I am afraid I know too little about it to comment on that intelligently.
I gather that the resonace frequency of the mouth can be altered by changing the size of the opening at the lips, but I am not certain this is correct. I will try to find out.
I have noticed that some overblows (e.g. the 5) need to be played directly and accurately into the hole. I can take the same embouchure and breath pressure and move slightly from side to side, and when positioned properly the overblow will sound, otherwise it won't. I have noticed a similar effect with the tilt of the harp. My breath directly into the center of the hole seems to work best.
Thanks for the great site.
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